Program Item Details
TITLE: Dr. Reginald Bibby, Professor of Sociology and Research Chair for Social Sciences, University of Lethbridge
SUBJECT: #38 Restless Gods and a Look at Religion in Canada
SYNOPSIS: Beginning in 1975, Dr. Reginald Bibby has been surveying Canadian social attitudes towards a whole range of values, including religous beliefs. With several books under his belt, Reg Bibby is working on a new one, Restless Gods, which is based on the latest survey. Among the surprises in the most recent data is the sudden increase among teens in their interest in organized religion.
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TRANSCRIPT:
Intro: For the last quarter century, Dr. Reginald Bibby of the University of Lethbridge has been polling the social values and attitudes of Canadians, and he’s breathed life into his data by publishing the results in popular books. Next on his plate is one about religion. Back in 1975, Reg Bibby’s interest in sociology prompted a survey of social issues and deviance in Canadian society. What was supposed to be a one-time poll has turned into a major recurring study for this Sociology professor at the University of Lethbridge. In 1995, his study included more than 400 people who had participated in the original 1975 survey. Just appointed the Research Chair for Social Sciences at the University of Lethbridge, Dr. Bibby is presently working on a book that looks at what has happened with our attitudes about religion over the last quarter century.
Dr. Reg Bibby
RB: We’ve tried to deal with a number of common notions that people have, because I suppose in some ways that was just our starting place. We had some stereotypes as to where people were. What became interesting with the results we were generating way back to 1975, was simply finding that things were not necessarily the way people were putting them together. For example, we’ve been monitoring the involvement that Canadians have had in organized religion way back to 1975, so we can tell you about what the levels were like then versus what they are like now, and have been documenting a general decline in terms of participation in organized religion.
But in the next breath, we’ve also been looking at the extent to which Canadians are receptive to organized religion, and what we’ve been finding that throughout the entire time is that they’ve not dropped out, they’ve continued to identify with the major religious groups in the country. We’ve also found that, even though attendance at this point in time is down to about 21%, we’re talking here weekly attenders at the same time a high level of receptivity among Canadians as far as organized religion goes. Something else we’ve been able to address, apart from organized religion, to what extent Canadians are interested in spirituality, for example. Or the extent to which stereotypes, which I know I had when I started out on this research program, the extent to which they engage in things like private prayer, the extent to which they actually value religion as such.
Some of these more subjective things, but also some of these more behavioural things. Definitely beliefs. Up through 1975, when we started the research program, we really didn’t know much in Canada about the extent to which Canadians are holding conventional beliefs: God, divinity, and Jesus, life after death, these kinds of things. We certainly didn’t know much about the less conventional: the extent to which Canadians are giving credibility to ESP, psychic phenomena, and reading their horoscopes and so on. We’ve been generating a lot of data in those kinds of areas. What we’ve been finding overall is that if we look at the extent to which Canadians participate in organized religion, by now it’s so obvious that those levels are far below the interest that they have, with respect to interest in spirituality, interest in less conventional things, but also the extent to which they hold very conventional beliefs about God.
The God-level, for example, as far as belief over time has been hanging steady at about somewhere between 80 or 90%. Perhaps more surprising is we’ve been finding over time, we’ve been asking Canadians about the extent to which they think they’ve actually experienced God. That level has remained steady at around 45% since 1975, during which time attendance dropped from somewhere around 35% down to around 20%.
CC: WHERE DOES THIS MOVEMENT IN NEW AGE RELIGION, OR THE MOVEMENT TO ACCEPT SPIRITUALITY IS BECOMING ALMOST SECOND PLACE, WHERE DOES THAT FIT IN TO THE SCHEME OF THINGS?
RB: There’s a number of ways in which I could respond. I would say that the interest in new age ideas has been fairly pronounced over the last twenty years or so. Canadians, though, have really a la carte-like in the way that they approach things like new age religion and new age offerings. They might be very interested in something like channeling, or they might buy a little pyramid, as even I did at one time and put it beside to my bed for the heck of it, and they might be interested in those sorts of things. They are certainly reading their horoscopes, and so on. But what we find is that they adopt those kinds of things in bits and pieces, while at the same time continuing to think, for the most part in Canada, that they’re Protestants or Roman Catholics.
The interest in spirituality, I think is, again, overly profound here with me, but I would say a major source of that is sort of the legitimization that spirituality has been receiving from the media particularly, and in included in that the extent to which high profile entertainers, athletes, and so on, appear on things like talkshows, and talk about their spirituality. Spirituality, as many people have been noting, has really been in over the last ten or fifteen years, has contributed to a climate where people now can, in a very open way, talk about spirituality, express spiritual needs and not be laughed at as they may have been in the sixties.
CC: WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE CANADIAN LANDSCAPE AND THE CANADIAN HISTORY, RELIGION HAS PLAYED A VERY IMPORTANT ROLE. PEOPLE HAVE COME HERE IN ORDER TO EXPRESS RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, BUT AT THE SAME TIME THERE HAVE ALSO BEEN A LOT OF TABOOS IN TERMS OF THE MIXING OF RELIGIONS. AND YET, NOW WE'RE GOING THROUGH A PERIOD WHERE WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE COMING FROM COUNTRIES ALL OVER THE WORLD, WHO BRING ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT BELIEFS HERE. ARE WE MIXING AT ALL, IN TERMS OF OUR RELIGIOUS BELIEFS?
RB: That's an important question. When we're talking about the extent to which other religions are making headway over Christianity in the country, that's really been a slow kind of process for groups. Back in 1871 when our first census was carried out, only 2% of Canadians were identifying with other faiths. Up through 1971 the figure had reached a mammoth 4%, with the difficulty being that many people coming to Canada were simply having difficulty being able to instill that other faith kind of expression in their children. The problem here is a numbers one, and I should just update that and say that between '71 and '91 there certainly has been an increase as far as people coming from countries bringing other faiths with them, as a result of that in 1971 the other faith figure had moved up to around 7%. The difficulty that these other faiths tend to have is that they simply are small, as far as numbers, and as a result, when we're looking, for example at kids in Canada who have parents who are Sikhs, we're talking about kids who only have access to about one half of one percent of Canadians when it comes to marrying within the faith. That's true of virtually any of the other faiths, even the Jewish figures in Canada are relatively small, some 1 to 2 percent of Canadians over time. So, these groups face a very, very difficult battle in terms of being able to retain their children over time.
We found as recently as 1991 that when we looked at intermarriage patterns, to the extent that people identify with other world faiths, and marry, say a Protestant or a Catholic, the kids tend to be raised either Protestant or Catholic. Heavens, if they marry someone who says "I'm no religion", then the kids tend to be raised "no religion". This is just a practical demographic reality. These groups are small in number, and as result they have great difficulty in being able to actually increase their numbers over time. What we have on the positive side, in terms of diversity, is that there is no question that as people are coming from other countries, particularly from third world countries where people see themselves as Catholics, they are adding very much to the cultural mosaic of Catholicism. When see Evangelicals coming from places like Korea, they are adding to the mosaic of Protestantism in Canada. But for the most part, the big religious companies in Canada continue to enjoy quite a monopoly.
CC: HAVE THERE BEEN ANY SURPRISES FOR YOU COMING OUT OF THIS LAST RESEARCH?
RB: I would say that particularly with the youth research, what we have been surprised to see is an upturn in attendance among 15 to 19 year olds. In 1984 we had about 22% of teens attending on a weekly basis, in 1992 it dropped down to 15%. I thought it would drop down to about 10% as of 2000. But no, lo and behold, it rebounded up close to that 22% figure from 1984. That's definitely been a surprise. Also in our adults and youth surveys, we've asked Canadians bluntly "would you consider being more involved in groups if you found it to be worthwhile?" What we're finding is thatover 50% of Canadians who are not even attending on a monthly basis say that they would be receptive to greater involvement. Among teens the figure is close to 40%. That surprised me in the sense that I tend to get caught up in the thinking of everyone else, and assuming that if they're not involved, they're probably not that interested in organized religion, and hence we will invariably say that "yes, but they're interested in spirituality." So, the surprising finding here is the finding that a high percentage of Canadians, both young and old are indicating that they are receptive, that there is an opportunity for religious groups. They haven't given up on religious groups, but the onus is still on religious groups to come through.
CC: WELL, THOSE ARE THE FACTS AND FIGURES, BUT WHAT IS THE MOTIVATION BEHIND IT? WHAT IS MOTIVATING PEOPLE TO TRY AND FIND THEMSELVES WITHIN A RELIGIOUS GROUP?
RB: Well, I think what it comes down to here is a real pragmatism, although they may not verbalize it quite like that. I think that it's a matter that all of us give our time, and we give our resources, generally, to things that we regard as significant. There's no question, but that Canadians are saying, and we've documented this right up through 2000, they're saying that they are intrigued with issues related with "what's going to happen to me when I die?", "what's the purpose of life?", "the meaning of suffering?", "how can I find an element of happiness?", these kinds of things. They are raising these questions at least off and on. I think what’s important is to the extent that they can feel that those kinds of issues can be addressed by religious groups, then they’re going to define religious groups as significant, and they’re going to want to have more to do with them. The practical problem right now is that religious groups have got to find ways to convey to Canadians that, if in fact they have something to bring to them with respect to these big questions that are being raised, that groups have somehow got to find a way to get the message across that they do have something relevant to say, they have something pertinent to say. Ideally here, I think there is almost a match made in heaven. There is an ongoing demand, on the part of Canadians, for many of the things that religious groups have stressed historically. The issue here is: can religious groups respond in a way that will allow them to simply be relevant to Canadians and can they get message across in the course of time so that there is going to be a connecting of churches and Canadians.
CC: IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY NEED TO TAKE A NEW MARKETING APPROACH.
RB: I think that they probably do. If they really believe that they’ve got a product, and products that can address these kinds of interests and needs of Canadians, then they clearly have to get the word as well out that they do, in fact, have them. At this point in time, there is obviously a perception on the part of Canadians that even though they identify with the groups, even though they indicate that they are receptive to greater involvement, clearly a lot of Canadians defining the groups as doing the kinds of things that will make it worthwhile for them to be involved.
CC: WHEN DOES YOUR BOOK ON RELIGIOUS TRENDS COME OUT?
RB: It is coming out in April, and it is called Restless Gods. Some people who might be familiar with my work know that we have had Fragmented Gods, and we have had Unknown Gods in the past, and this one is Restless Gods: the Renaissance of Religion in Canada.
CC: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
RB: Thank you very much.
Dr. Reginald Bibby is an author and Sociology professor at the University of Lethbridge. He has recently been appointed to the newly created Research Chair for Social Sciences at the University of Lethbridge.